Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II
CNBC: There was as you know another suicide bombing outside of Jerusalem over night. I think the big question that all of us have at this point is, does the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas have the ability to stop the suicide bombings by Hamas and the other radical groups?
King Abdullah: Well, I think, as we were well aware at the Aqaba summit, that his ability to rein in the extremists and to be able to deal with the security issue is an ongoing process. And the reason for the Aqaba summit was to create mechanisms to empower him to be able to deal with the security issue. And it's baby steps in the right direction. We haven't achieved the level of security cooperation that we want, but all sides are working to try and make sure what happened at Mt. Zion will not happen again.
CNBC: Well, do you think that he is able to control this, though? Does he have the power?
King Abdullah: Well, his power is increasing in ability, but one of the problems is that he has to have a relationship with his own street. At the moment, he has no ability to deal with the policy, with the lack of jobs. And this is something that the Americans and the Israelis are working on. It's the Israelis, actually, at this stage that can be the great data--source of power for Mahmoud Abbas by alleviating the social difficulties that the Palestinians are going through, which gives him more power with his street. At the moment, he's somewhat hindered and his arms are tied behind his back.
CNBC: Well, and that was my next question. I mean, given what we've seen in the last two weeks, do you think Prime Minister Sharon is doing enough to keep up his part of the agreement?
King Abdullah: Well, I think, as we'll see at the Quartet meeting at the Dead Sea on Saturday, Sunday, the Quartet and especially the United States will be, I think, weighing in heavily on the Israelis and Palestinians to continue to do what they're supposed to do within the framework of the roadmap. And as I think we all understood at the start of the Aqaba summit, that there was not going to be any miracles in the first couple of days. We're having to build the confidence to move people in the right direction so that we can achieve some results in the near future.
CNBC: Ah...
King Abdullah: It's going to be a tough road.
CNBC: Your Majesty, is what you're saying ithat when Colin Powell goes to Israel, he has to lean very heavily on Ariel Sharon?
King Abdullah: Well, I think that the Americans are going to demand of the Israelis and the Palestinians to adhere to what is expected from the roadmap. And I think the Americans will be in a better position to see which side is more negligent than the other and where the pressure has to be applied.
CNBC: In your view, has the US action in Iraq helped create peace in the Middle East or has it hurt?
King Abdullah: Well, I think in the short term, it's had a damaging effect because a majority of people in the Middle East are still suspicious on the intentions that America has vis-à-vis Iraq, but as Iraq slowly becomes normalised and the Iraqis have a say in their future, as well as, I think, the president's very strong commitment to the peace process, I think things will start to look up. And the reaction of the Middle East will be positive, i.e., we might have had to take one step back to take two steps forward.
CNBC: Well, how much of a problem, though, is it in Iraq that the United States has not either captured or killed Saddam Hussein and his sons?
King Abdullah: Well, again, it's a big country and there are a lot of difficulties on the ground. I think it's only just a matter of time until that happens and I think that it's needed to bring the issue to a closure, because I believe that there's a lot of Iraqis out there that are still fearful that, you know, is Saddam alive or dead. If he is still alive, then maybe he can still come back to crush, in effect, their lives. So at the end of the day, sooner or later, we're going to have to have some closure on the issue of Saddam Hussein.
CNBC: Another big issue, of course, is the failure so far to find clear evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Is that much of a problem in the region, in your view?
King Abdullah: Well, I think, again, the international community felt that weapons of mass destruction were the major issue leading up to Iraq. Again, it's a very big country and I believe personally that they're going to need more time to be able to track down the sources of weapons of mass destruction.
CNBC: Do you believe they're there, though?
King Abdullah: I think so, yes. I have to say that I believe that there were some programmes there. To what extent? I don't know. But there were programmes, of course, going on in Iraq. Yes.
CNBC: President Bush also said yesterday, and I'm going to quote him here, that the United States, quote, “will not tolerate the construction of a nuclear weapon in Iran.” What can be done to stop Iran's nuclear programme?
King Abdullah: Well, again, I think that's a question best asked of the Americans, but what we all hope in Jordan and, I think, the region that--from Morocco in the Atlantic all the way to India in the Indian Ocean, that this area becomes a nuclear- or weapons of mass destruction-free zone. So that there are a lot of countries in the area that, I hope, will have pressure put on--upon them in--in the future that stops whatever weapons capabilities they have or whatever enterprises they're embarking upon.
CNBC: But the question, Your Majesty, is what kind of pressure? Do you do it with simply diplomatic pressure? Do you foment revolution in Iran? Do you consider the possibility of US military action in Iran?
King Abdullah: Well, I always think whenever there's a crisis, dialogue is the only way of dealing with situations because the alternatives will always lead to violence. So if there's an issue between the United States or the West and Iran, I hope that by talking to each other there's enough common ground there to solve the problem.
CNBC: Your Majesty, the vision laid out by President George W. Bush for the Middle East goes beyond just peace and stability. He says that he wants democracy to flourish in this region. Is that a realistic point of view?
King Abdullah: I think it's a realistic point of view as long as you solve the core issue of the Middle East, which is the Israeli-Palestinian/Israeli-Arab issue. Because that is an excuse that all parties like to use not to move forward with democracy and freedom for the people here, because of the state of tension due to the problems that Israel has with the Palestinians and many of the Arab countries. This is why we, in Jordan, and others in the region are pushing so hard for the peace process because once you solve that problem, then I think democracy and freedom for everybody in the region will take leaps and bounds.
CNBC: Are we talking about real democracy here? I know your country had an election recently. On the other hand, you still have pretty close to absolute power. You can dissolve the parliament; you can veto any legislation they pass; you can rule by decree. Are we talking about moving to something that most Americans would consider democracy?
King Abdullah: Yes. And I think that the countries will move in that direction. Obviously, different countries will have different paces. But as in Jordan, I think you're underestimating the power of the parliament. If the parliament pushes through an amendment, you can filibuster to an extent, like you do in the United States and the president can do, but for the most part, the parliament in Jordan has a lot more power than I think people understand. A prime example was several years ago when I tried to pass through an amendment on honour crimes. Unfortunately, the parliament then vetoed what I thought was a very liberal and forward-thinking agenda and said no.
CNBC: Your Majesty, let's talk a little bit about the World Economic Forum which you are hosting this weekend. What do you think can be accomplished at a session like this?
King Abdullah: Well, I think there’re two elements to this. When--the idea of having the meeting in the Dead Sea, the Economic Forum, was done in January with the anticipation, unfortunately, that there was going to be a war with Iraq, and knowing that there's the lingering problem of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. And it was felt in January that a meeting in the early summer as reconciliation to try and sort of mend fences and put a lot of the problems behind us, that was basically the origin of the West meeting here. Obviously, that is going to be a major part. The other major part will be economic and business.
CNBC: And on the economic and business front, you're pushing for free trade, for further globalisation. I wonder what your view is on this--on this debate that has come up in recent years where a number of people are saying globalisation, free trade isn't really working to the benefit of the people who need it, it's just helping the developed countries exploit the underdeveloped countries.
King Abdullah: Well, I can only speak on behalf of Jordan. Our free trade with the United States has helped us dramatically. Three years ago, our exports to the United States were roughly $50 million. Now it's almost half a billion-worth of sales with the increase of 20,000 to 30,000 jobs. So as Jordan, I see the tremendous benefits for our country. But I think there's something more important with a free trade agreement. It makes countries in a region that are backwards when it comes to laws and modernisation of their economies and institutions, if they want to be part of the global society, they have to strengthen institutions and mend their economic standing so that they can be a competitive part of globalisation. And I think that is actually the real secret, opening people's eyes around the area that they have to get their economic act together.
CNBC: Your Majesty, thanks so much for being with us on Capital Report. We appreciate it.
King Abdullah: Thank you very much.
