Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah II
Al Hayat: There are growing fears of a breakout of civil war in Iraq. Do you share this fear and does Jordan anticipate such an eventuality?
King Abdullah: We are concerned at what is happening in Iraq, particularly as we see continuing violence take sectarian form at times. But at the same time, I count on the awareness of the Iraqi people and their realisation of the dangers threatening the country. I also appreciate the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki's keenness on unity and the territorial integrity of Iraq. I have recently met Maliki in Jordan and could see his keenness on Iraq's unity. He has a programme to escape the cycle of violence in the country. We are all invited to support his programme and make it succeed for the future of Iraq and the future of the region. All the Arabs are also called upon to support Iraq and stand by it and not allow anyone to interfere in its affairs. Let us leave Iraq for the Iraqis to decide their future. I have, on many occasions, warned about the repercussions of the deterioration of Iraq's security situation, which is increasing day by day. This stands in the way of any serious effort to save Iraq from the disturbances, violence, blind fighting and a plunge to civil war that would consume all and its effects, God forbid, would destabilise the entire region. We in Jordan, as a neighbouring country with historic brotherly ties with the Iraqi people, are naturally the first to be affected by what happens there, and it is in our interest that Iraqis succeed in their efforts to establish a secure, united, sovereign and independent Iraq.
Al Hayat: You will be participating in the UN General Assembly meetings. Are you carrying a Jordanian or an Arab proposal to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict?
King Abdullah: We do not carry a Jordanian proposal, but there are some ideas that were agreed in coordination with Saudi Arabia and Egypt and some other Arab states and Palestinian President Abu Mazen to revive the peace process based on international resolutions and the Arab Peace Initiative as well as the roadmap.
Al Hayat: The aggression on Lebanon undermined confidence in peace negotiations. What are the steps to return to the peace process?
King Abdullah: A peace that secures the rights of all parties and ensures the establishment of an independent Palestinian state on Palestinian soil is a peace that will last and be protected and preserved by future generations. But an incomplete peace that does not restore rights to the Palestinian people will remain fragile and unstable. We have tried several initiatives since Oslo but these initiatives were incomplete and soon collapsed, returning things to square one. The peace has to be based on international resolutions as stipulated in the Arab Peace Initiative endorsed in Beirut in 2002 - a return of Arab rights in exchange for security guarantees for Israel to live in peace and security with surrounding Arab countries.
Al Hayat: Why do you feel that unilateral and piecemeal solutions do not contribute to establishing peace?
King Abdullah: Because we have seen what happened in Gaza after the Israeli unilateral withdrawal and we have seen what happened in Lebanon from which Israel withdrew in 2000 only to return. The only lasting peace is one that all sides are convinced of and believe in and one that follows negotiations and international agreements. What is called unilateral peace has proven its failure in reality.
Al Hayat: For more than a year, you said that there needed to be a settlement within two years. Has this period decreased or increased?
King Abdullah: Unfortunately it has decreased and so has room for optimism. I am warning of a bleak future for the region if there is no movement on a basis that is clear and acceptable by all sides within the coming few weeks, to reach a solution that people are convinced of.
Al Hayat: You said after the aggression in Lebanon that there is no military solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict, and that occupation breeds resistance. But Israel killed the peace process. What is the solution?
King Abdullah: The solution is through a return to peace, to the negotiating table. After the war in Lebanon, the failure of unilateral solutions has been underscored to Israel now, just as it has to the US and the entire world. For there is no future for Israel unless there is a just peace that restores rights to the people. Israel cannot, and the region cannot enjoy security unless the Palestinians enjoy stability. It is high time to return to the root causes of the conflict and the core issue, which is the Palestinian issue, without a just solution that restores Palestinian rights and ensures the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on Palestinian land, people of the region will not enjoy security and stability. I am warning that unless we start within the next weeks and months with a comprehensive negotiating process between the Palestinians and Israelis, resulting in the establishment of an independent and geographically contiguous Palestinian state within a specified time, then people of this region will have to live many more difficult years characterised by violence.
Al Hayat: There is a movement towards a Palestinian national unity government. Will this help efforts towards negotiation and solutions?
King Abdullah: We hope this step would succeed and would include enough factors for a revival of the negotiation process. The Palestinian situation has been dire during the past months and I am deeply concerned about its future unless there is progress.
Al Hayat: The region is experiencing or living the Iranian nuclear file. Do you fear this file would lead to a military confrontation?
King Abdullah: We hope that there will be no military confrontation. Our region cannot endure a new catastrophe, for which we will all pay the price. The people of the region are fed up with war and cannot endure more violence, catastrophes and destruction. What is required today is for the international community to seek to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue through dialogue and diplomacy. This option has to remain open, for it is not only in the interest of Iran but also in the interest of regional and global peace and stability. A resumption of negotiations to reach results agreeable to all and that achieves regional security is what is needed.
Al Hayat: Some Arab parties fear what they call Iranian attempts to seize a primary role in the region through political, military, security and financial operations. There are those who speak of attempts to convert Sunnis into Shia. What is Your Majesty's view?
King Abdullah: It is regrettable that there are some regional powers and parties that seek to escalate the conflict and incite fitna between Sunni and Shia. I, as a member of the Aal Al Bayt, am very keen on Muslims wherever they may be, Sunnis and Shia, and whoever tries to undermine the relationship the sons of the one religion is a traitor to his religion and the umma. Out of our concern about events in Iraq, we have sought to bring together the Islamic scholars, Sunni and Shia, and other sects, at the International Islamic Conference, which convened in Amman in 2005 and which was a step towards emphasising the commonalities between all Muslims. The delegates endorsed the legitimacy of all eight schools of jurisprudence. We had also released the Amman Message, through which we sought to challenge the fake claims of extremists in the world. In the coming couple of months, we will host a conference in Amman of the Iraqi religious leaders of all sects with the aim of fostering Iraqi unity and reaching religious reconciliation that can pave the way for political reconciliation. This could help put an end to violence and sectarian fighting in Iraq and redirect the energies of the Iraqis towards building a secure and stable country. Allow me to stress here that we are concerned about any external interference in Iraq's affairs… and that the field has been left open for violence to continue. Only the Iraqis themselves have the right to decide their future without any external interference or ambitions.
Al Hayat: How do you describe Syrian-Jordanian relations today? And why haven't the leaderships of both countries developed the close relationship that was expected by some years ago?
King Abdullah: Frankly I cannot say the relations are excellent. I have been keen since President Bashar Assad became president to open a new page with Syria, of trust and work in the interest of both countries because we believe in the necessity and importance of building positive relations between Arab states. We also believe that the success of any Arab state is a success for Jordan. But unfortunately, the expressions of good will we've been hearing from the Syrian leadership have not been translated on the ground. We continue to wish that Syria's important role in fostering Arab security and stability will be preserved.
Al Hayat: There have been reports that you were seeking, at different times, to alleviate the American-Syrian dispute. What does America want from Syria now? To change the regime or to change its policies, particularly with regards to the alliance with Iran?
King Abdullah: I have tried time and again to ease the dispute between the US and Syria. We used to advise the Americans to listen to the Syrian point of view and to open diplomatic dialogue with the Syrian leadership. But after recent developments in the region, especially after the Syria-Lebanon dispute and the assassination of Rafik Hariri, the differences have widened and the issue has become more complicated over the past months. We wish for Syria's well-being and progress. Any harm to Syria, God forbid will affect us.
Al Hayat: Why did you refuse to take part in the international peacekeeping force in Lebanon?
King Abdullah: Participating in such international forces has to have the support of the Arabs. That's why I see that the Arab League is an institution more capable of settling the issue of committing Arab troops to international forces in Lebanon.
Al Hayat: You seek to build a united Arab strategy to face the challenges in Palestine, Iraq and Lebanon. What are the bases of this strategy?
King Abdullah: Our strategy depends on uniting the Arab position and emerging with a united Arab vision towards the challenges we face in the region. Because we strongly believe that without a united Arab position, that makes our voices heard, this region will become booty for the greedy. I've said clearly lately that I fear the Arab role would be marginalised, for the world power, if they don't find a united, clear, Arab position, they will look for an alternative to negotiate with on our behalf. And then we will all be sorry. That is why I have been exerting efforts over the past months to meet with Arab leaders to formulate an Arab position that would foster our strategy to protect the future of all the Arabs.
Al Hayat: Does this mean that the trilateral Jordanian-Saudi-Egyptian coordination is moving towards forming a new axis in the region?
King Abdullah: Jordan is farthest from the axis policy. Its coordination is not restricted to Saudi Arabia or Egypt but includes other Arab states. We have worked with those in Saudi, Egypt and some other Arab countries to formulate a united Arab position to deal with the region's crises with one vision, which is the opposite of creating an axis. Regrettably some regional powers and some Arab brothers do not like these countries to coordinate and seek a united Arab position. They cast doubt over the objectives of this coordination. Here, I wonder if coordinating with Egypt, Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Yemen and Sudan is unacceptable; is it acceptable to coordinate and ally with other regional powers that may not have the interests of this region at heart?
Al Hayat: In your estimation, what are the lessons learned from the aggression on Lebanon?
King Abdullah: The biggest lesson is the failure of Israeli unilateralism and the failure of dependence on force as a solution to the regional conflict and the failure of the policies of powerful countries that have not seriously sought to help the countries of the Middle East find a just and comprehensive solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. [There is also] the failure of interference in Lebanon's affairs. If Israel had destroyed villages and cities and attacked Hezbollah's infrastructure, I think this does not ensure the emergence of another Hezbollah, perhaps in another country. The biggest lesson we should learn from the aggression on Lebanon is that there can be no peace and security in the region unless we return to the root causes of conflict, which is the Palestinian issue, and work to end the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and to establish the Palestinian state on Palestinian land.
Al Hayat: Are you concerned about the situation in Lebanon?
King Abdullah: Very much so. You know that Lebanon is loved and respected by all Jordanians. Throughout the past six years, I was very optimistic about Lebanon in terms of political, economic and social development, and I considered Lebanon a model for all Arabs in its openness and in its desire to develop and build. We in Jordan were hoping to follow that model right here at home. The assassination of President Rafik Hariri, God bless his soul, shocked us and had a great impact on us all in Jordan. Then came the most recent war that set Lebanon back 30 years. Although we are doing all that we can for the Lebanese, we always feel we are not doing enough, for Lebanon means a lot to Jordanians and Arabs in general. We are in contact with the Lebanese on a daily basis to inquire about more ways in which we can help. We dispatched a field hospital and our Air Force helped re-open the airport. We are also thinking about ways in which we can help the Lebanese private sector and encourage Arab investment there. We are in constant touch with Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and believe it is an Arab duty to assist Lebanon in overcoming its difficulties.
Al Hayat: Are there threats of a relapse in the implementation of Resolution 1701 and a puncturing of the international umbrella?
King Abdullah: Today, there is a strong sentiment that it is necessary to protect Lebanese stability. It is a feeling shared by Europeans, Americans and a large number of Arab countries. Sentiment towards what was happening in Lebanon during the first week of the war did not reflect the magnitude of the crisis. The situation today is much better. What I am especially concerned about is division among the Lebanese and that political disputes move beyond the realms of political and PR campaigns, especially since there are some who want Lebanon to remain unstable, or who would like to undermine the steps that have been taken towards stability. These parties must realise that we will not accept that such a dangerous game be played in Lebanon or in the region.
Al Hayat: Do you mean interference in Lebanese affairs?
King Abdullah: I believe it is time to leave Lebanon to the Lebanese, and to let them determine their own affairs and future without interference or pressure. If this happens, the Lebanese people, with their vivacity, will guarantee Lebanon's return to the path of reconstruction. The interference of all parties should cease, and to this end, we must also push Israel on the issue of Shebaa Farms. The resolution of this issue is important to the future of the relationship between Lebanon and Syria. We are moving in this direction, and there is a European effort, as well. The issue of prisoners also needs follow-up. It will take time, but these issues are important. If they are resolved, and if interference ends, Lebanon will surely rise again and the Lebanese will be able to move forward. I am optimistic and confident that the Lebanese people will be able to overcome the repercussions of the war.
Al Hayat: Do you think that the Hariri assassination was part of a bigger problem?
King Abdullah: I believe that the Lebanese have a right to know the truth. The Arabs, too, have a right to know. Attempts to prevent the truth from emerging are totally counterproductive. The details of a crime of this magnitude must be revealed in the service of the stability of Lebanon and the region. The Investigation Commission enjoys international legitimacy, and it must focus on this terrorist crime in order to hold accountable those involved and any accomplices they may have had. The investigation must take its course.
Al Hayat: Do you think that some American political errors in the region bolster the position of terrorist groups and those who sympathise with them?
King Abdullah: Unfortunately this is what has happened. Since September 11, the American reaction to the attack has contributed to the empowerment of terrorist groups. We have warned since September 11 of the existence of those who are trying to drive a wedge between East and West and exploit American errors in the region in the interest of fostering hatred and division whereby margin for moderates to manoeuvre has been narrowed. This is a cause of concern for all of us. The voices of moderation have been neutralised and the region abducted in the interest of agendas which do not want Arab unity. That is why we are demanding today that moderation achieve tangible results; so that the moderate camp can win popular support. Otherwise people will adopt other means to defend their rights, and these means we all know. We've all experienced its danger and the destruction it brings.
Al Hayat: How do you see the war on terrorism moving in the world? And what are the major challenges terrorism presents to Jordan? Are there countries seeking to destabilise Jordan?
King Abdullah: Jordan and the whole region today are in a constant state of war on terror, especially that most victims have been Arab and Muslim. We have to solve the problems in order that the terrorists can not use them as excuses for their criminal actions, and which strengthen parties and individuals that stand behind and support criminal acts. We have many challenges to deal with because if the Palestinian issue remains unresolved and Israel continues its policy of besieging the Palestinian people, and the killing, which breeds despair and frustration, and if the daily killing continues in Iraq, the feelings of despair will increase and breed extremism and terrorism. As we see today, Jordan is between a war in Palestine, escalating violence in Iraq and regional powers working hard to destabilise the whole region.
Al Hayat: There is much clamour among the Jordanian opposition criticising the anti-terror draft law as a martial law that restricts free speech and violates human rights. What do you think?
King Abdullah: Consideration of an anti-terror law emerged after Jordan was attacked twice. The victims were innocent civilians; the hotel blasts in Amman which killed 60 people and the Aqaba incident before that. Several sectors of society demanded the endorsement of this law. It also came about due to a national forum representing political parties and civil society and an awareness among large numbers of Jordanians that Jordan is facing huge challenges from terrorism due to external factors. Jordanian legislators also found that current laws are not sufficiently firm in dealing with terrorism. I don't think that any citizen who has Jordan's national and security interests and the security of other citizens at heart would oppose this move, which is meant to preserve the security of our people and our guests. The government did not impose the anti-terror law as a temporary law, but the law won wide acceptance among the people's representatives in parliament. I say to those who fear for freedoms that the Jordanian constitution and other legislation preserve their rights. But we do not want to ensure freedom for terrorists or those who seek to threaten Jordan's security and that of its people.
Al Hayat: The shooting of tourists in central Amman. Would it lead to a more stringent enforcement of the law? Or would it be used as a pretext to restrict public freedoms?
King Abdullah: Not at all. This incident re-emphasised citizens' opposition to terrorism. It reflected the unity of the people once again in facing terrorism. For ordinary people present at the Roman amphitheatre where the incident took place played a key role in apprehending the perpetrator, which preliminary investigations show was acting independently. There are no indications so far that another party stands behind him.
Al Hayat: The relationship of the government with the Islamist movement has been tense lately. Especially after the visit of the four MPs to the Zarqawi mourning house. Do you think the Muslim Brotherhood crossed the red lines in their traditional relationship with the government?
King Abdullah: There have been several signals from the Islamist movement rejecting the move by the MPs in visiting the Zarqawi mourning house. They have emphasised their commitment to Jordan's commitment to preserving security and rejecting terrorism. I know very well that the majority of the Islamist movement's members love their country and reject attempts to undermine national security. The Muslim Brotherhood continues to have representatives in parliament and several national institutions, and they have several platforms to work through in freedom. Our battle is against the takfiris who find the community apostates and believe that of the moderates in the Islamist movement. The constitution will remain the authority that governs the government, the Islamist movement and all of us. But being empowered by non-Jordanian parties and supporting takfiri thought at the expense of the country are absolutely unacceptable.
Al Hayat: Does this mean you are calling for a reformulation of the relationship with the Islamist movement?
King Abdullah: The Islamist movement is a political movement like any other in the Kingdom and the relationship has and will continue to be based on concern for immutable national interests and will be guided by the constitution.
Al Hayat: What was meant by renewing the Jordanian passport of the head of the Hamas politburo, Khaled Mishaal, after seven years of tense relations with the movement?
King Abdullah: Khaled Mishaal sent his passport to our embassy in Doha to be renewed, just as any Jordanian citizen would do, and he got it. This emphasises that we have no personal problem with this man, as much as there is a security and political one. I would like to add here that when the war in Lebanon erupted, Khaled Mishaal sent his family to Amman to ensure their security, and the government facilitated their entry into Jordanian land. Once again, let me say that differences with Khaled Mishaal were over the issue of targeting Jordan's security, and it is a difference over policies the man follows. Nothing else.
Al Hayat: The Jordanian opposition is calling for a new elections law. But recently there has been less talk of this law, and it has been postponed for an unspecified period. What is preventing the law from being amended?
King Abdullah: We want first to strengthen political life and look forward to the day we have elections based on political party lists. But the obvious truth is we have a problem in political life which is that people are reluctant to join parties, and that is probably due to two reasons; first, fear of joining parties. This may be a result of the experience of the 1950s and 1960s. Second, people are not convinced of the efficacy of joining parties, especially in light of their fragmentation and redundancy in their political programmes. Today we have more than thirty parties, but the number of members is less than one per cent of the population. There is a political parties law now before parliament. We hope it will be endorsed so we can regulate political work and ensure the success of elections based on parties in the near future, God willing.
Al Hayat: You have raised the slogan of internal reform and spearheaded several initiatives. Are you satisfied with what has been achieved?
King Abdullah: We are moving in the right direction. The achievements of the last seven years have been substantial and brought about quality results at the economic, social and political levels. I am proud of my Jordanian people and their ability to achieve and to face challenges. Jordan, as you know, has no natural resources except the Jordanian people themselves on whom we depend to build modern Jordan. But despite these great achievements, I cannot say I am completely satisfied with what has been achieved. Our ambitions for Jordan and its people are unlimited. Challenges will not deter us from seeking to build a model Jordan and achieve a better future for our people.
Al Hayat: Several international parties have raised the issue of extraordinary rendition of prisoners to Jordan, where those arrested by the US are tortured during interrogation?
King Abdullah: This is untrue. There are no US detainees in Jordan at all. And Jordanian prisons have always been open to international institutions, and there has never been mention of such violations at detention centres.
Al Hayat: The fuel bill has become a burden on the Jordanian budget, especially after the rise in international fuel prices. What are you doing to solve the problem?
King Abdullah: Ensuring better living conditions for our people, especially those with limited income and the poor, is one of our priorities. There are several ambitious development projects and programmes which we hope would contribute to alleviating the effects of the fuel bill on us and would achieve our ambitions to improve the conditions of the poor who are the most affected by the rise in prices. The support and assistance we have received from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait amid the huge rise in oil prices has played a major role in alleviating the pressures of this rise on the state's national budget, and has helped us overcome the repercussions of that. We hope that this assistance will continue so that we can move forward in our development programmes.
Al Hayat: Does Jordan always live in the eye of regional storms?
King Abdullah: Unfortunately, we live in a tough neighbourhood, and being at the centre of the storm is part of our life in Jordan. There is the Palestinian question and its implications. Many Arab-Israeli wars have occurred and we have paid the price. Many regional crises have taken place and we have paid the price. Upheavals are part of our lives. Unfortunately, we have become experts [smiles]. What is important is that we never lose direction. What continues to guarantee our ability to face these storms is the solidarity of the Jordanian people.
Al Hayat: Would you bet on the army from whose ranks Your Majesty graduated? How would you evaluate the level of the Jordanian army today?
King Abdullah: The first guarantee is the people, of which the army is part. The experiences of the past few decades have [strengthened] solidarity in the face of danger within the greater Jordanian family. Jordanians are strong in facing crises and do not allow anyone to harm their homeland. This is the feeling of every Jordanian citizen and soldier. As for my evaluation of the Jordanian army, I consider it one of the best in the region because of its discipline, professionalism, and accumulated experience. In addition, it enjoys great popularity among the people.
Al Hayat: In recent weeks, Jordan was the subject of several campaigns, the most recent of which is the accusations of Ayman Zawahiri, the “second man” in Al Qaeda.
King Abdullah: Frankly speaking, had we been silent and refrained from transparently expressing our convictions and opinions, no one would have criticised us. Be it in closed meetings or in public, we consider it our duty to speak our minds about the situation in the region and about the threats that we see are staring the Arabs and their interests in the eye. The magnitude of these threats sometimes pushes us to call things by their name in order to underscore the urgency of the situation and of finding a solution. Those powers that campaign against us do so because they feel that Jordan, with its experience and expertise, is fully aware of its objective and how to achieve it. The model of moderation that Jordan has adopted does not prevent it from being candid and taking initiative. This also provokes some powers whose agendas serve neither peace nor stability and development.
